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on this episode of skeptic Oh Alex talks

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with noted abduction researcher and

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Temple University history professor dr.

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David Jacobs you mean to tell me an

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academic would say not only are aliens

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coming from outer space which you we all

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know they can't they can't get here from

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there and now they're kidnapping people

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because they want to see what makes us

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tick and all that and no no no no no no

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now I don't care what the reasons are

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for why they don't do it what the

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scientific and and academic community is

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doing is they are simply abrogating

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their responsibility to study this

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subject you have to understand for

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example the UFO phenomenon and the

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abduction phenomenon together are global

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in nature everybody and everything that

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includes animals see these objects and

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react to them not only that let me tell

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you a few of the thing that just

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astonished me every time I think about

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it in the abduction phenomena people are

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physically missing from their normal

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environments when they are abducted

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police have been called search parties

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have been sent out the kids hunt for

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their parents parents on for their

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children during abductions they're not

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there and this phenomenon is not

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happening not only that people are

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abducted in groups and can confirm each

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other's abductions and yet it's not

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happening people returned from

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abductions and they have unusual marks

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and scars on their body and sometimes

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and I have seen this fully formed scar

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tissue literally the next day that is

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not possible

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and yet this phenomenon is not happening

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people returned from abductions without

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their clothes and never finding their

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clothes again sometimes they return for

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abductions wearing somebody else's

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clothes and yet it's not happening so if

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I grant that it's not happening then

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abduction researchers has stumbled on

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one of the most important areas of human

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cognition that has ever been found

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welcome to skeptic Oh where we explore

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controversial science with leading

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researchers thinkers and their critics

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I'm your host Alex Karras and on this

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episode of skeptical as you just heard

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we welcome David Jacobs now you might

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recall a couple episodes ago I mentioned

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that I was going to be doing this series

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on the intersection alien contact and

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extended human consciousness what I

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think is just a fascinating topic well

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today's guest David Jacobs if you don't

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already know is quite a controversial

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figure in this mix and I guess the

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reasons why is controversial are many

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and somewhat complicated and I think to

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explain it as I think I should we need

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to almost have a brief history of the

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entire UFO phenomena let me give that a

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try as I sit here today 2013 I think we

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can say the UFO phenomena is an accepted

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reality more people believe then don't

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believe those figures skew even higher

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the younger you go and the more educated

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you go it's also of course been

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established through the release of

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previously classified documents that our

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government has had a longtime interest

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in UFOs

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despite their statements to the contrary

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has been very involved and then further

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from a worldwide basis we know that

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other governments have just come out and

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released all their documents and that's

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pretty amazing stuff including multiple

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sightings by military witnesses public

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witnesses air chases all the rest so the

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reason to go there is to explain how

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David Jacobs fits into that landscape

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and it's curious fit because even though

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the UFO phenomena is at the point where

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we can say it's accepted the alien

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contact an alien abduction phenomena not

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so much and it's kind of a strange

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situation because if you think it

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through

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what are you really saying if

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you say I believe in life on other

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planets I believe visitation through

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these sightings but I don't believe

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these numerous people in all sorts of

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different walks of life without the

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world

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I don't believe their claims of direct

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contact with these beings or this other

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consciousness we could get into all that

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but with these beings let's keep it

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simple now that's a rather strange

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position to advanced as a matter of fact

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if you look at the data on that simple

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fact that is shifting to because I think

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that strangeness of it means that a lot

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of people will get there eventually they

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just haven't quite settled into really

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accepting what that means I mean if you

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accept that hey there was an alien

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spaceship in the air and we chased it

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and it got away is it really that much

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of a leap to suggest that they visited

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some people and had contact with them no

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it's just unsettling so you don't really

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want to go there but it's really not

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that big of a leap so now back to David

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Jacobs along comes David Jacobs who

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famously along with Budd Hopkins for the

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last thirty years has been claiming that

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he's been working directly with

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people who've had this abduction

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experience and he's claimed that through

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hypnotherapy and hypnotic regression

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he's been able to get detailed accounts

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of what's going on so I think you knew

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all that but if you didn't that's a

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little bit of an intro to frame up this

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debate if you will this schism between

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whether that alien contact is some kind

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of quasi spiritual experience as we

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explored with Mary Rodwell or as you'll

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hear from dr. Jacobs that experience is

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truly an abduction an invasion and an

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invasion that suggests a much more

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sinister motive behind this contact with

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these others so that's one way in which

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dr. Jacob is this highly controversial

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figure within the UFO community but the

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other way that he's controversial in

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this I think has to be brought up

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because so many people who are really

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into this material know about a lot of

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the negative things that have come up

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David Jacobs and his techniques

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methodologies and the claims of his

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inappropriate sessions with one

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particular abductee he was working with

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so before doing this interview I talked

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with dr. Jacobs about that case I also

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independently talked to a couple of dr.

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Jacobs detractors all in attempt to get

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a handle on what to make of this pretty

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big body of work that he's amassed and

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his claims about the alien abduction

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phenomena what I decided at the end of

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the day was that we do need to listen to

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dr. Jacobs we do need that voice out

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there and although some of the

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techniques he's used in the past have

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been called into question I don't think

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it undermines his work and I think

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people who attack it from that front are

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usually folks who are not willing to

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accept any hypnotic regression work

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which I just don't understand

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I don't understand how you can think

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that anyone who's had a hypnotic

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regression even a mild one where

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someone's just told to relax and count

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back to ten how everything after that

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that they might say or remember is

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tainted I understand that the techniques

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and the methodologies that we use have

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to be careful but I don't think hypnotic

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regression immediately taints all

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memories that someone might have so my

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interview with David Jacobs was a pretty

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long one I've actually broken it up into

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two segments to broadcast here on

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skeptiko

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one because of the length but also

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because there's a real shift in the

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interview the first talks about existing

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body of work some of the groundwork for

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his beliefs and his understandings that

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he's gained and the second shifts more

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into the topic that I started with Mary

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Broadwell on and that's how we should

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understand this experience visa vie

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these two camps this John Mac spiritual

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transformation alien contact camp and

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this David Jacobs and now deceased but

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Hopkins camp who sees it as an intrusion

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an alien abduction with a very sinister

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motive behind it okay so thanks

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for staying with me for that lengthy

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introduction here goes with dr. David

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Jacobs today we welcome historian and

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UFO abduction researcher dr. David

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Jacobs - skeptic Oh dr. Jacobs is the

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author of four books and many many

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important articles he's done numerous

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television and radio appearances all on

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this topic that he is really one of the

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pioneers in and that is alien abduction

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research dr. Jacobs it's great to have

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you on thanks so much for joining me

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thank you for having me Alex well as I

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mentioned you know for anyone who has

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even a passing interest in this field

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they know about you they know about your

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work and they probably also know that

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one of the reasons that a lot of folks

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are drawn to you is because you have

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this very interesting dual career you

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are a long time history professor at

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Temple University in Philadelphia before

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your retirement and as I was looking

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over your bio I noticed that you were

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also someone who you had to be the first

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person to do a PhD dissertation on UFOs

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I have to ask you right from the outset

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how did you pull that off

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that was actually tricky first of all I

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was actually if you want to speak

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technically a guy named Mike shirts at

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at Northwestern University did a paper

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sociology dissertation on UFO groups or

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cults or whatever and he got his PhD one

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month before I did so technically

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speaking I am the second dissertation

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that dealt with UFOs his was the first

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but basically it's close enough to be

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almost a tie however I dress the

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controversy over it I was actually

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working on a dissertation on the image

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of women in very early film history

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pre-1915 was sort of my target dates and

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I had done about six months

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research on that but in my fetid brain

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all I did was think about UFOs and and

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the UFO phenomenon and had I had become

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enamored with it back in the mid-60s and

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and I was going home every day and

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reading reading it reading flying saucer

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review and the a pro pollutant and UFO

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investigators from nightcap and other

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eventually I realized that there hadn't

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been a a serious history of the subject

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of the controversy over it since since

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the rules book reported on how no die no

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high flying objects and his was

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basically a first-person report as

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opposed to a history of it and so I

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approached my major professor this is of

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the University of Wisconsin he was my

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sort of mentor who told me that this was

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a great idea this was a wonderful idea

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he loved this idea I could switch

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dissertation topics and goodbye and he

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went off to Rutgers University with that

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so I was left without a major professor

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without a mentor and I chose a guy named

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Paul Konkan who was a sort of steel trap

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mind guy of the history department which

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had the best history department in the

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United States at the time at the

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University of Wisconsin in an in the 60s

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00:12:38,949 --> 00:12:33,589
and he was not impressed with this topic

277
00:12:41,170 --> 00:12:38,959
and and I sort of tried to show him that

278
00:12:42,639 --> 00:12:41,180
the topic was different than what he

279
00:12:45,670 --> 00:12:42,649
thought it was and there was a large

280
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:45,680
public history about UFOs which involved

281
00:12:51,179 --> 00:12:48,170
government agencies and national

282
00:12:55,569 --> 00:12:51,189
organizations and this and that and he

283
00:12:58,210 --> 00:12:55,579
still was unsure and I find he I finally

284
00:13:01,350 --> 00:12:58,220
saw him in the hallway and IA said write

285
00:13:04,179 --> 00:13:01,360
me up a prospectus of a couple of pages

286
00:13:06,009 --> 00:13:04,189
so I wrote it up for him and I waited

287
00:13:09,610 --> 00:13:06,019
and waited and waited and waited now

288
00:13:11,850 --> 00:13:09,620
this guy was really hard nosed I cannot

289
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:11,860
emphasize that enough

290
00:13:16,980 --> 00:13:15,130
and he never responded and I finally ran

291
00:13:19,230 --> 00:13:16,990
into him in the hallway one day and I

292
00:13:21,270 --> 00:13:19,240
said mister Konkan everybody called a

293
00:13:23,340 --> 00:13:21,280
all oppressors mister they're at

294
00:13:25,590 --> 00:13:23,350
Wisconsin I said it's cockin did you

295
00:13:30,990 --> 00:13:25,600
read my perspective respect us he said

296
00:13:31,470 --> 00:13:31,000
yeah I read it I said well what did you

297
00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:31,480
think

298
00:13:39,810 --> 00:13:36,970
he said well okay so he was just trying

299
00:13:44,370 --> 00:13:39,820
to think of a reason to not approve it

300
00:13:47,060 --> 00:13:44,380
and the delay and he said oh okay and as

301
00:13:50,820 --> 00:13:47,070
soon as he said okay in a with a

302
00:13:53,250 --> 00:13:50,830
exasperated tone I became his student

303
00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:53,260
that's the way the system was I suddenly

304
00:14:00,690 --> 00:13:56,170
was in his seminar I could do no wrong I

305
00:14:01,860 --> 00:14:00,700
was now a member of the elite and so he

306
00:14:03,540 --> 00:14:01,870
helped me guide me through a

307
00:14:04,950 --> 00:14:03,550
dissertation that was ultimately

308
00:14:08,670 --> 00:14:04,960
published well by the University of

309
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:08,680
Indiana Press and it became the second

310
00:14:13,790 --> 00:14:11,650
PhD dissertation ever written on the

311
00:14:16,590 --> 00:14:13,800
subject of UFOs of any sort

312
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:16,600
yeah that's pretty amazing in and of

313
00:14:21,420 --> 00:14:18,730
itself and then what I guess is even

314
00:14:24,930 --> 00:14:21,430
more amazing is you were able to kind of

315
00:14:26,460 --> 00:14:24,940
manage this two-track career if you will

316
00:14:29,130 --> 00:14:26,470
although the tracks were completely

317
00:14:31,380 --> 00:14:29,140
separate you were successful academic

318
00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:31,390
and historian at very respected

319
00:14:35,940 --> 00:14:33,250
University Temple University there and

320
00:14:38,180 --> 00:14:35,950
at the same time where you're best known

321
00:14:40,650 --> 00:14:38,190
throughout the world is as this

322
00:14:43,530 --> 00:14:40,660
researcher that pioneered this research

323
00:14:45,900 --> 00:14:43,540
into just about the most controversial

324
00:14:49,230 --> 00:14:45,910
of phenomenon you can imagine the idea

325
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:49,240
of alien abduction so you know I can't

326
00:14:55,260 --> 00:14:52,330
imagine that your research interest in

327
00:14:58,260 --> 00:14:55,270
alien abduction helped your academic

328
00:15:01,170 --> 00:14:58,270
career probably the opposite yes I would

329
00:15:05,390 --> 00:15:01,180
say that you're right it was the

330
00:15:07,260 --> 00:15:05,400
opposite I knew going in eyes open that

331
00:15:10,590 --> 00:15:07,270
talking about people who were being

332
00:15:13,740 --> 00:15:10,600
abducted into flying saucers was not

333
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:13,750
exactly going to increase my credibility

334
00:15:18,590 --> 00:15:15,370
with him that the history department at

335
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:18,600
Temple and would probably help too

336
00:15:25,069 --> 00:15:22,410
stop my career in mid track I had tenure

337
00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:25,079
and which is one of the greatest things

338
00:15:30,079 --> 00:15:28,290
ever in the history of a khadeem now

339
00:15:33,170 --> 00:15:30,089
under assault across the country

340
00:15:35,809 --> 00:15:33,180
incidentally but it allowed me to do

341
00:15:37,550 --> 00:15:35,819
what I what I wanted to do while kicking

342
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:37,560
up all my other duties and teaching all

343
00:15:42,559 --> 00:15:39,930
my classes and doing other research at

344
00:15:46,970 --> 00:15:42,569
Temple University as well it did however

345
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:46,980
stop my career in terms of moving up up

346
00:15:52,999 --> 00:15:49,410
the academic ladder but as long as I had

347
00:15:58,550 --> 00:15:53,009
tenure that's that's that's all I needed

348
00:16:03,740 --> 00:15:58,560
and so I retired in in 2011 and now I'm

349
00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:03,750
trying to write three books and trying

350
00:16:06,530 --> 00:16:05,279
desperately to finish one I've been

351
00:16:09,439 --> 00:16:06,540
working out for about four or five years

352
00:16:11,689 --> 00:16:09,449
I'm coming to the end of it I've

353
00:16:14,150 --> 00:16:11,699
finished I've got a rough draft of

354
00:16:16,579 --> 00:16:14,160
another one and and yet there's a third

355
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:16,589
one that I'm that I'm gonna do and when

356
00:16:21,189 --> 00:16:19,050
those are all finished I will hang up my

357
00:16:24,139 --> 00:16:21,199
brains and that's gonna be the end of it

358
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:24,149
we'll see a lot of people claim that and

359
00:16:28,249 --> 00:16:26,250
they're never able to hang up their

360
00:16:31,429 --> 00:16:28,259
brains but we'll see hey speaking of

361
00:16:34,639 --> 00:16:31,439
books thirteen years ago the year 2000

362
00:16:37,460 --> 00:16:34,649
you edit a book titled UFOs in

363
00:16:40,639 --> 00:16:37,470
abductions challenging the borders of

364
00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:40,649
knowledge in it you said that the study

365
00:16:46,629 --> 00:16:43,680
of UFO merit serious attention from the

366
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:46,639
intellectual establishment you also said

367
00:16:51,620 --> 00:16:49,050
something interesting that I'd like to

368
00:16:54,740 --> 00:16:51,630
get you to comment on and that is lack

369
00:16:56,990 --> 00:16:54,750
of academic participation creates a

370
00:16:58,670 --> 00:16:57,000
vicious cycle that prevents the

371
00:17:01,460 --> 00:16:58,680
development of standards that would

372
00:17:04,669 --> 00:17:01,470
attract greater academic participation

373
00:17:06,860 --> 00:17:04,679
and thus greater credibility tell us

374
00:17:11,149 --> 00:17:06,870
about that and tell us what has changed

375
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:11,159
in the last 13 years well in the last 13

376
00:17:17,449 --> 00:17:14,970
years well first of all this is this is

377
00:17:19,699 --> 00:17:17,459
a subject that is bereft of academic

378
00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:19,709
participation by academic I mean

379
00:17:25,010 --> 00:17:21,360
scientific community and the academic

380
00:17:28,030 --> 00:17:25,020
community the scientific community is

381
00:17:31,310 --> 00:17:28,040
one part of the study of this it is not

382
00:17:36,049 --> 00:17:31,320
necessarily the critical part the

383
00:17:40,430 --> 00:17:36,059
anybody who has an academic training and

384
00:17:43,669 --> 00:17:40,440
basically anybody who has who can think

385
00:17:46,779 --> 00:17:43,679
logically can do this kind of work it's

386
00:17:50,690 --> 00:17:46,789
so unprecedented that it doesn't require

387
00:17:53,029 --> 00:17:50,700
expertise in any particular subject to

388
00:17:57,769 --> 00:17:53,039
get an insight into it because it's it's

389
00:18:01,039 --> 00:17:57,779
it's unique however what weaves what

390
00:18:05,090 --> 00:18:01,049
I've seen and and it was happening 13

391
00:18:07,220 --> 00:18:05,100
years ago is that over the years the

392
00:18:09,940 --> 00:18:07,230
academic community and scientific

393
00:18:13,789 --> 00:18:09,950
community and professional community

394
00:18:18,830 --> 00:18:13,799
that is to say dentists lawyers people

395
00:18:22,669 --> 00:18:18,840
like that have given their names in

396
00:18:25,850 --> 00:18:22,679
public to UFO organizations to be

397
00:18:27,830 --> 00:18:25,860
consultants to these groups there's

398
00:18:31,549 --> 00:18:27,840
mutual UFO network the aerial phenomena

399
00:18:33,110 --> 00:18:31,559
research organization the national

400
00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:33,120
investigations to material phenomena the

401
00:18:37,909 --> 00:18:34,710
fund for UFO research and so on

402
00:18:40,789 --> 00:18:37,919
and these organizations published lists

403
00:18:44,330 --> 00:18:40,799
of academics and scientists and and

404
00:18:46,549 --> 00:18:44,340
others professionals who had given their

405
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:46,559
full names and allowed them to be used

406
00:18:53,419 --> 00:18:50,970
in public as consultants I counted up

407
00:18:56,269 --> 00:18:53,429
the number of names of everybody who had

408
00:19:00,590 --> 00:18:56,279
a post graduate degree that included

409
00:19:05,869 --> 00:19:00,600
PhDs and and master's degrees it came to

410
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:05,879
about 1200 individuals that was years

411
00:19:12,019 --> 00:19:09,090
and years and years ago know the

412
00:19:13,659 --> 00:19:12,029
academic community has no interest in

413
00:19:16,549 --> 00:19:13,669
this subject whatsoever

414
00:19:18,590 --> 00:19:16,559
there aren't 1,200 people across the

415
00:19:21,470 --> 00:19:18,600
country who are academics who are who

416
00:19:25,580 --> 00:19:21,480
will lend their names to organizations

417
00:19:26,930 --> 00:19:25,590
and in fact what we find is that the

418
00:19:29,210 --> 00:19:26,940
academic community professional

419
00:19:30,769 --> 00:19:29,220
community whatever is downright hostile

420
00:19:33,470 --> 00:19:30,779
to the subject it's not that they're not

421
00:19:36,919 --> 00:19:33,480
interested they're actively hostile

422
00:19:40,820 --> 00:19:36,929
right so the vicious cycle has turned

423
00:19:42,649 --> 00:19:40,830
into an outright war right and this is

424
00:19:43,919 --> 00:19:42,659
the first time that this has happened

425
00:19:45,509 --> 00:19:43,929
since the beginning of

426
00:19:48,570 --> 00:19:45,519
the phenomenon there's never been a

427
00:19:51,779 --> 00:19:48,580
period in in UFO history where you get

428
00:19:55,769 --> 00:19:51,789
this kind of hostility except perhaps in

429
00:19:58,619 --> 00:19:55,779
the first two years between 47 and 49

430
00:20:02,129 --> 00:19:58,629
something like that but even then it was

431
00:20:05,940 --> 00:20:02,139
more curiosity now its hostility you

432
00:20:07,830 --> 00:20:05,950
just it's really astonishing I think

433
00:20:09,659 --> 00:20:07,840
it's because of three reasons whether

434
00:20:11,220 --> 00:20:09,669
you agree with these reasons or not I'm

435
00:20:16,259 --> 00:20:11,230
not going to make a value judgment on

436
00:20:20,450 --> 00:20:16,269
them I think number one is the the idea

437
00:20:23,399 --> 00:20:20,460
of a government cover-up I think that

438
00:20:25,470 --> 00:20:23,409
that that to ask the academic community

439
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:25,480
believes that UFOs are real they're from

440
00:20:29,639 --> 00:20:28,210
outer space they're here doing this that

441
00:20:31,289 --> 00:20:29,649
and the other thing and the government

442
00:20:32,909 --> 00:20:31,299
knows all about them and the government

443
00:20:35,100 --> 00:20:32,919
is hiding information and the government

444
00:20:36,659 --> 00:20:35,110
might even have one or two and they

445
00:20:38,879 --> 00:20:36,669
might even have aliens who are pickled

446
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:38,889
in jars then and all that sort of stuff

447
00:20:45,180 --> 00:20:42,850
that is a let's just say a turn-off to

448
00:20:47,580 --> 00:20:45,190
use an old phrase for academics that's

449
00:20:52,549 --> 00:20:47,590
like especially for social scientists

450
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:52,559
that is just impossible to imagine and

451
00:20:57,239 --> 00:20:55,690
it just it goes against every grain of

452
00:20:59,340 --> 00:20:57,249
knowledge of the government and how the

453
00:21:00,840 --> 00:20:59,350
government works that all political

454
00:21:03,029 --> 00:21:00,850
scientists and historians and

455
00:21:05,820 --> 00:21:03,039
sociologists are they all they all know

456
00:21:08,009 --> 00:21:05,830
that that that this is this is not not

457
00:21:10,859 --> 00:21:08,019
necessarily the way things work so

458
00:21:12,239 --> 00:21:10,869
however let's just fine-tune that point

459
00:21:16,139 --> 00:21:12,249
a little bit so what you're saying is

460
00:21:19,109 --> 00:21:16,149
maybe 1020 years ago before the whole

461
00:21:21,269 --> 00:21:19,119
story really got fleshed out more and we

462
00:21:23,759 --> 00:21:21,279
really understood all these documents

463
00:21:26,659 --> 00:21:23,769
that have now surfaced that show clearly

464
00:21:29,279 --> 00:21:26,669
there was a government intelligence

465
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:29,289
interest in this topic at the very least

466
00:21:34,259 --> 00:21:30,970
I mean that's clearly documented and

467
00:21:36,749 --> 00:21:34,269
though actually not traditional position

468
00:21:38,850 --> 00:21:36,759
so I think now you're saying once people

469
00:21:42,180 --> 00:21:38,860
really internalize the purse is a

470
00:21:44,820 --> 00:21:42,190
serious problem here in terms of the

471
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:44,830
government's position then that's one

472
00:21:47,879 --> 00:21:46,450
more reason to say hey just pull back

473
00:21:51,989 --> 00:21:47,889
from that that's not going to do

474
00:21:54,269 --> 00:21:51,999
anything but crush my my career so one

475
00:21:55,049 --> 00:21:54,279
more reason to step back right right

476
00:21:56,610 --> 00:21:55,059
exactly

477
00:21:59,070 --> 00:21:56,620
whether you agree with

478
00:22:00,480 --> 00:21:59,080
if government's a secrecy or not it

479
00:22:02,660 --> 00:22:00,490
doesn't matter for the academic

480
00:22:05,100 --> 00:22:02,670
community it's just it's nonsensical

481
00:22:06,750 --> 00:22:05,110
because when you didn't know about it

482
00:22:09,450 --> 00:22:06,760
you could have blindly put your name on

483
00:22:12,570 --> 00:22:09,460
some MUFON list but now that you know

484
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:12,580
that you're like nah better not right

485
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:16,170
that's that's one area a second area is

486
00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:19,210
popular culture yeah if you watch

487
00:22:25,650 --> 00:22:22,809
television cable TV the cable TV is now

488
00:22:28,170 --> 00:22:25,660
have now has a lot of shows that will

489
00:22:30,510 --> 00:22:28,180
deal with UFOs abductions and all that

490
00:22:34,470 --> 00:22:30,520
and some of these folks are actually

491
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:34,480
very good most of them are aren't aren't

492
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:36,010
very good aren't to be very good

493
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:39,010
category let's just say but it become

494
00:22:45,750 --> 00:22:41,170
but the net effect of this is it becomes

495
00:22:48,540 --> 00:22:45,760
just another part of popular culture it

496
00:22:50,610 --> 00:22:48,550
becomes a popular culture a mean sort of

497
00:22:55,049 --> 00:22:50,620
speaker it becomes just a thing that

498
00:22:58,410 --> 00:22:55,059
happens in the society and and it is not

499
00:23:00,990 --> 00:22:58,420
really a scientific and academic subject

500
00:23:02,850 --> 00:23:01,000
it's a popular culture subject and

501
00:23:04,650 --> 00:23:02,860
scientists stay away from popular

502
00:23:07,710 --> 00:23:04,660
culture unless of course there are

503
00:23:10,669 --> 00:23:07,720
historians or sociologists and

504
00:23:14,490 --> 00:23:10,679
consequently I think that that has hurt

505
00:23:16,860 --> 00:23:14,500
the the the entrance of economics into

506
00:23:20,010 --> 00:23:16,870
this study the third thing is abductions

507
00:23:22,710 --> 00:23:20,020
you mean to tell me an academic would

508
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:22,720
say that not only are aliens coming from

509
00:23:27,540 --> 00:23:25,570
outer space which you we all know they

510
00:23:29,970 --> 00:23:27,550
can't they can't get here from there

511
00:23:32,549 --> 00:23:29,980
because even at the speed of light you

512
00:23:36,630 --> 00:23:32,559
know it would take well you know the

513
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:36,640
argument bla bla bla bla bla so they and

514
00:23:40,799 --> 00:23:38,890
and and now they're kidnapping people

515
00:23:44,370 --> 00:23:40,809
because they want to see what makes us

516
00:23:48,330 --> 00:23:44,380
tick and all that no no no no no no

517
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:48,340
these three things I think popular

518
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:52,770
culture secrecy and abductions have

519
00:23:57,990 --> 00:23:55,690
managed to just close the door on the

520
00:24:00,690 --> 00:23:58,000
academic community they just don't want

521
00:24:04,350 --> 00:24:00,700
to enter into this stu this may launch

522
00:24:06,409 --> 00:24:04,360
of things that are swirling around the

523
00:24:11,389 --> 00:24:06,419
UFO sighting phenomenon

524
00:24:15,739 --> 00:24:11,399
and so it's it's you can understand why

525
00:24:18,139 --> 00:24:15,749
now I don't care what the reasons are

526
00:24:20,090 --> 00:24:18,149
for why they don't do it what what the

527
00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:20,100
scientific and academic community is

528
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:22,710
doing is they are simply abrogating

529
00:24:26,149 --> 00:24:24,480
their responsibility to study this

530
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:26,159
subject you have to understand for

531
00:24:31,460 --> 00:24:29,369
example the the UFO phenomenon and the

532
00:24:35,599 --> 00:24:31,470
abduction phenomenon together are global

533
00:24:38,450 --> 00:24:35,609
in nature with everybody and everything

534
00:24:41,299 --> 00:24:38,460
that includes animals see these objects

535
00:24:43,039 --> 00:24:41,309
and react to them or and in the

536
00:24:45,830 --> 00:24:43,049
abduction phenomenon which you have as

537
00:24:48,310 --> 00:24:45,840
people coming from all around the world

538
00:24:53,779 --> 00:24:48,320
with from all different walks of life

539
00:24:56,629 --> 00:24:53,789
having wildly different backgrounds from

540
00:24:58,310 --> 00:24:56,639
PhDs and MDS and psychiatrists and

541
00:25:01,849 --> 00:24:58,320
psychologists if people who dropped out

542
00:25:04,399 --> 00:25:01,859
of school in the 12th grade or the ninth

543
00:25:07,090 --> 00:25:04,409
number 12 years old for example had one

544
00:25:10,220 --> 00:25:07,100
person like that or in the ninth grade

545
00:25:12,609 --> 00:25:10,230
and and and people could never hold a

546
00:25:16,629 --> 00:25:12,619
job get it together all saying the same

547
00:25:22,279 --> 00:25:16,639
exact things from around the world and

548
00:25:23,269 --> 00:25:22,289
and and yet there's no interest in this

549
00:25:25,039 --> 00:25:23,279
whatsoever

550
00:25:27,649 --> 00:25:25,049
not only that let me tell you a few

551
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:27,659
other things that just astonished me

552
00:25:32,180 --> 00:25:30,480
every time I think about it people are

553
00:25:33,799 --> 00:25:32,190
physically in the abduction phenomena

554
00:25:35,629 --> 00:25:33,809
people are physically missing from their

555
00:25:38,989 --> 00:25:35,639
normal environments when they are

556
00:25:41,599 --> 00:25:38,999
abducted police have been called search

557
00:25:43,789 --> 00:25:41,609
parties have been sent out the kids hunt

558
00:25:46,609 --> 00:25:43,799
for their parents parents want for their

559
00:25:49,729 --> 00:25:46,619
children during abductions they're not

560
00:25:51,799 --> 00:25:49,739
there and this phenomenon is not

561
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:51,809
happening yep

562
00:25:56,749 --> 00:25:53,850
this is what people are reporting all

563
00:25:58,729 --> 00:25:56,759
the time not only that people are

564
00:26:00,710 --> 00:25:58,739
abducted in groups and can confirm each

565
00:26:03,379 --> 00:26:00,720
other's abductions now oftentimes these

566
00:26:06,830 --> 00:26:03,389
are family groups where they might be in

567
00:26:09,830 --> 00:26:06,840
cahoots together but oftentimes they're

568
00:26:11,899 --> 00:26:09,840
not in family groups their neighbors and

569
00:26:14,839 --> 00:26:11,909
they can confirm each other's abductions

570
00:26:15,919 --> 00:26:14,849
or even strangers whom they meet on the

571
00:26:18,139 --> 00:26:15,929
street they know immediately they've

572
00:26:20,570 --> 00:26:18,149
seen this person and yet it's not

573
00:26:22,999 --> 00:26:20,580
happening people returned from

574
00:26:24,799 --> 00:26:23,009
abductions and they have unusual marks

575
00:26:28,009 --> 00:26:24,809
and scars on their body and sometimes

576
00:26:32,239 --> 00:26:28,019
and I have seen this fully formed scar

577
00:26:34,580 --> 00:26:32,249
tissue literally the next day I have

578
00:26:38,479 --> 00:26:34,590
seen this in person I had a session with

579
00:26:40,879 --> 00:26:38,489
a woman once who had was perfectly fine

580
00:26:43,009 --> 00:26:40,889
she saw me the next morning and she had

581
00:26:44,810 --> 00:26:43,019
two one-inch scars on each hand in

582
00:26:48,549 --> 00:26:44,820
exactly the same place that were not

583
00:26:52,009 --> 00:26:48,559
there the day before to my unbelievable

584
00:26:52,759 --> 00:26:52,019
breathtaking amazement that is not

585
00:26:55,129 --> 00:26:52,769
possible

586
00:26:58,210 --> 00:26:55,139
and yet this phenomenon is not happening

587
00:27:01,849 --> 00:26:58,220
people returned from abductions wearing

588
00:27:03,289 --> 00:27:01,859
without their clothes and never finding

589
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:03,299
their clothes again

590
00:27:08,779 --> 00:27:05,129
sometimes they return from abductions

591
00:27:09,919 --> 00:27:08,789
wearing somebody else's clothes how

592
00:27:11,379 --> 00:27:09,929
would you like to get up in the morning

593
00:27:13,609 --> 00:27:11,389
you're wearing somebody else's clothes

594
00:27:16,729 --> 00:27:13,619
that would catch your attention you know

595
00:27:19,220 --> 00:27:16,739
what I mean and I knew it didn't have a

596
00:27:23,539 --> 00:27:19,230
fifth of Jack Daniels the night before

597
00:27:25,419 --> 00:27:23,549
or something like that and and yet this

598
00:27:27,710 --> 00:27:25,429
isn't happening

599
00:27:29,479 --> 00:27:27,720
sometimes abductions are observed by

600
00:27:32,060 --> 00:27:29,489
bystanders who have nothing to do with

601
00:27:34,839 --> 00:27:32,070
it it's rare but it does happen and yet

602
00:27:37,759 --> 00:27:34,849
it's not happening you would think that

603
00:27:39,649 --> 00:27:37,769
this type of phenomenon which is not

604
00:27:41,570 --> 00:27:39,659
happening and yet people are seeing it

605
00:27:45,710 --> 00:27:41,580
in groups of people and this and that

606
00:27:47,659 --> 00:27:45,720
would be of extraordinary importance to

607
00:27:50,180 --> 00:27:47,669
the academic and professional community

608
00:27:53,690 --> 00:27:50,190
because there's never been anything like

609
00:27:56,989 --> 00:27:53,700
this phenomenon and its global no this

610
00:28:01,460 --> 00:27:56,999
has never happened before in this type

611
00:28:03,349 --> 00:28:01,470
of method in a sense and yet it's not

612
00:28:05,089 --> 00:28:03,359
happening so if I grant that it's not

613
00:28:05,869 --> 00:28:05,099
happening that people are not being

614
00:28:08,749 --> 00:28:05,879
abducted

615
00:28:10,580 --> 00:28:08,759
then abduction researchers have stumbled

616
00:28:13,899 --> 00:28:10,590
on one of the most important areas of

617
00:28:16,249 --> 00:28:13,909
human cognition and mentality and and

618
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:16,259
circuitry and the brain and all that

619
00:28:21,649 --> 00:28:18,090
that has ever been found

620
00:28:23,779 --> 00:28:21,659
you'd think that neurologists would be

621
00:28:25,789 --> 00:28:23,789
interested in this that's that

622
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:25,799
psychologist a psychiatrist a video

623
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:28,450
you'd think the answer is

624
00:28:37,470 --> 00:28:34,530
chance one accepts the reality of these

625
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:37,480
experiences as reported by many many

626
00:28:42,870 --> 00:28:40,330
people and if we should add as reported

627
00:28:46,290 --> 00:28:42,880
to many different researchers not just

628
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:46,300
dr. David Jacobs but many people who've

629
00:28:51,210 --> 00:28:48,490
encountered folks who claim to have this

630
00:28:54,060 --> 00:28:51,220
abduction experience no connection to

631
00:28:56,190 --> 00:28:54,070
you whatsoever report very much similar

632
00:28:58,140 --> 00:28:56,200
kinds of experiences and all those

633
00:28:59,880 --> 00:28:58,150
things so you're saying that there's

634
00:29:02,750 --> 00:28:59,890
really a challenge to the academic

635
00:29:06,420 --> 00:29:02,760
community to either accept those

636
00:29:09,110 --> 00:29:06,430
accounts at face value or reject them

637
00:29:11,970 --> 00:29:09,120
and and then find some deeper

638
00:29:14,580 --> 00:29:11,980
neurological or psychological problem

639
00:29:19,410 --> 00:29:14,590
but in either case it's something that

640
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:19,420
demands resolution yes and what you're

641
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:22,210
saying is is individuals what I'm

642
00:29:26,670 --> 00:29:24,010
talking about sometimes in my little

643
00:29:29,940 --> 00:29:26,680
list is groups yes once you say the word

644
00:29:34,710 --> 00:29:29,950
groups of people then suddenly all

645
00:29:37,470 --> 00:29:34,720
psychological explanations fail but this

646
00:29:40,380 --> 00:29:37,480
is part of the phenomenon once again

647
00:29:41,340 --> 00:29:40,390
there's never been anything like this in

648
00:29:44,430 --> 00:29:41,350
history

649
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:44,440
you'd think academics would be flocking

650
00:29:48,690 --> 00:29:46,210
to this subject to figure out what in

651
00:29:51,030 --> 00:29:48,700
the heck this is people think that

652
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:51,040
they're being abducted all the time and

653
00:29:56,900 --> 00:29:53,530
it's not having and yet they're actually

654
00:30:01,500 --> 00:29:56,910
missing from their normal environment

655
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:01,510
only one case probably a non abductee in

656
00:30:06,870 --> 00:30:05,050
in Australia out of the thousands and

657
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:06,880
thousands and thousands of people have

658
00:30:11,430 --> 00:30:09,610
come forward it was shown to be not an

659
00:30:13,230 --> 00:30:11,440
abduction when she was she was actually

660
00:30:15,090 --> 00:30:13,240
in a car she said she was being abducted

661
00:30:17,850 --> 00:30:15,100
by an a guy sitting next to her is there

662
00:30:21,060 --> 00:30:17,860
well she wasn't abducted and and that

663
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:21,070
was a 1972 the marine puddy case in

664
00:30:25,140 --> 00:30:23,410
Australia that's the only time when

665
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:25,150
anybody ever said that they were

666
00:30:29,490 --> 00:30:27,370
abducted and they weren't that was not

667
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:29,500
fully investigated in Christmas

668
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:32,170
obviously not an abductee but at least

669
00:30:36,750 --> 00:30:33,970
she claimed it and we have to throw that

670
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:36,760
into the hopper but but that's an

671
00:30:40,250 --> 00:30:38,890
outlier and my guess is she was not an

672
00:30:42,980 --> 00:30:40,260
abductee

673
00:30:44,630 --> 00:30:42,990
so the fact is though that that you

674
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:44,640
think that they would be interested in

675
00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:47,730
this and their knots which is extremely

676
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:51,360
frustrating I think it is extremely

677
00:30:57,170 --> 00:30:53,730
frustrating and I think it's also very

678
00:30:59,960 --> 00:30:57,180
very important to go through it over and

679
00:31:01,700 --> 00:30:59,970
over again the way that you did so that

680
00:31:05,300 --> 00:31:01,710
people can really come to grips with

681
00:31:07,550 --> 00:31:05,310
this question that III think is is that

682
00:31:09,260 --> 00:31:07,560
the core of many of these kind of

683
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:09,270
realizations that people come to and

684
00:31:14,420 --> 00:31:11,250
that's the how can this be you know so

685
00:31:16,820 --> 00:31:14,430
people encounter this evidence this data

686
00:31:19,870 --> 00:31:16,830
whatever you want to call it and then

687
00:31:23,410 --> 00:31:19,880
even if they're drawn into it by the

688
00:31:25,970 --> 00:31:23,420
overwhelming amount of it and the

689
00:31:28,070 --> 00:31:25,980
impossibility of the skeptical

690
00:31:29,810 --> 00:31:28,080
explanations for it they get to the

691
00:31:31,850 --> 00:31:29,820
point they say hey how can this be that

692
00:31:33,620 --> 00:31:31,860
wait a minute all these people who I

693
00:31:36,380 --> 00:31:33,630
really trust who are in positions of

694
00:31:38,150 --> 00:31:36,390
authority who should know better why

695
00:31:39,620 --> 00:31:38,160
would they be deceiving me and then

696
00:31:41,660 --> 00:31:39,630
they're really thrown into a quandary

697
00:31:44,630 --> 00:31:41,670
and I can certainly relate to that

698
00:31:46,580 --> 00:31:44,640
because that's really been at the heart

699
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:46,590
I think of this show of the skeptic Oh

700
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:48,570
show and I want to go through a little

701
00:31:53,390 --> 00:31:50,490
bit of my path and coming to you because

702
00:31:57,070 --> 00:31:53,400
it has bearing on some of the questions

703
00:32:01,040 --> 00:31:57,080
I want to ask you about alien abduction

704
00:32:03,430 --> 00:32:01,050
research methodology overall big picture

705
00:32:06,310 --> 00:32:03,440
and where it might be going because my

706
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:06,320
path to this has really been through

707
00:32:10,660 --> 00:32:08,730
investigating human consciousness you

708
00:32:12,830 --> 00:32:10,670
know is telepathy real our

709
00:32:14,780 --> 00:32:12,840
synchronicities real our near-death

710
00:32:18,130 --> 00:32:14,790
experience is real that kind of stuff

711
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:18,140
and my approach has been to talk to

712
00:32:22,910 --> 00:32:20,570
researchers people who study this

713
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:22,920
scientifically publishing peer-reviewed

714
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:25,290
journal kind of thing because there is

715
00:32:29,270 --> 00:32:27,810
that when you look at size phenomena or

716
00:32:31,940 --> 00:32:29,280
when you look at near-death experience

717
00:32:34,130 --> 00:32:31,950
and what I found it really mirrors what

718
00:32:37,700 --> 00:32:34,140
you just said is that there's this

719
00:32:41,210 --> 00:32:37,710
rather bizarre disconnect between what

720
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:41,220
the data is telling us and academia is

721
00:32:45,140 --> 00:32:43,410
party-line it's kind of funny because it

722
00:32:47,810 --> 00:32:45,150
relates to what you're saying in that in

723
00:32:50,390 --> 00:32:47,820
one form or another what I keep running

724
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:50,400
against is this idea that consciousness

725
00:32:53,779 --> 00:32:52,290
is an illusion you know you are a

726
00:32:57,469 --> 00:32:53,789
biological robot

727
00:33:00,469 --> 00:32:57,479
so forget about a lien a telepathy

728
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:00,479
during alien abduction or even telepathy

729
00:33:05,479 --> 00:33:03,210
in the lab I mean these folks are saying

730
00:33:07,669 --> 00:33:05,489
there can't be any telepathy because

731
00:33:09,739 --> 00:33:07,679
there's no you in there to

732
00:33:13,219 --> 00:33:09,749
telepathically communicate with someone

733
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:13,229
else and I think this meme if you will

734
00:33:19,759 --> 00:33:15,210
this consciousness is an illusion you

735
00:33:21,469 --> 00:33:19,769
are a biological robot meme is really at

736
00:33:23,719 --> 00:33:21,479
the heart of some of these things where

737
00:33:25,999 --> 00:33:23,729
you're interacting with someone and

738
00:33:28,099 --> 00:33:26,009
they're debating and they're skeptical

739
00:33:29,389 --> 00:33:28,109
and what they don't realize is that what

740
00:33:31,700 --> 00:33:29,399
they're really saying they really don't

741
00:33:33,979 --> 00:33:31,710
even care about the data what they care

742
00:33:36,409 --> 00:33:33,989
about is this belief that hey you know

743
00:33:38,989 --> 00:33:36,419
what there can be no consciousness there

744
00:33:43,070 --> 00:33:38,999
can be nothing beyond just this

745
00:33:44,989 --> 00:33:43,080
biological robot thing and we can't even

746
00:33:47,570 --> 00:33:44,999
go there on a number of fronts so I'm

747
00:33:52,009 --> 00:33:47,580
not even going to try do you have any

748
00:33:55,759 --> 00:33:52,019
thoughts on the consciousness issue and

749
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:55,769
how that might play into this an area

750
00:34:01,820 --> 00:33:57,210
that we're talking about here in terms

751
00:34:05,269 --> 00:34:01,830
of this major pushback from academia and

752
00:34:08,180 --> 00:34:05,279
from really the the intellectual core of

753
00:34:11,899 --> 00:34:08,190
our society well you'll be happy to know

754
00:34:14,539 --> 00:34:11,909
that I don't and the problem here is

755
00:34:19,039 --> 00:34:14,549
that consciousness studies is a whole

756
00:34:20,720 --> 00:34:19,049
nother world made up to a large center

757
00:34:23,930 --> 00:34:20,730
of neurologists we're trying to figure

758
00:34:25,819 --> 00:34:23,940
out how humans have consciousness or

759
00:34:28,490 --> 00:34:25,829
indeed how all beings have consciousness

760
00:34:31,780 --> 00:34:28,500
because my cats have consciousness and

761
00:34:35,359 --> 00:34:31,790
that probably even sharper than mine but

762
00:34:38,119 --> 00:34:35,369
so it's it's something that it's

763
00:34:40,849 --> 00:34:38,129
interesting oh you did mention the word

764
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:40,859
telepathy so so I can talk a little bit

765
00:34:44,329 --> 00:34:43,290
about that because that is what is seen

766
00:34:46,609 --> 00:34:44,339
on board

767
00:34:49,220 --> 00:34:46,619
UFOs and that that's what seen within

768
00:34:50,569 --> 00:34:49,230
the abduction phenomena before you often

769
00:34:52,190 --> 00:34:50,579
telepathy let me throw a couple other

770
00:34:54,020 --> 00:34:52,200
things in there because I wasn't sure

771
00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:54,030
how you're going to go with that but it

772
00:34:57,530 --> 00:34:55,649
if that's where you're going let me add

773
00:34:59,569 --> 00:34:57,540
a couple other pieces that I think are

774
00:35:01,400 --> 00:34:59,579
out there you're probably aware of and

775
00:35:03,410 --> 00:35:01,410
I'd like you to tie into your answer if

776
00:35:05,329 --> 00:35:03,420
you start looking at extended human

777
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:05,339
consciousness and you look at like the

778
00:35:09,999 --> 00:35:07,130
experiments they did with

779
00:35:12,460 --> 00:35:10,009
viewing at Stanford Research Ingo Swan

780
00:35:15,069 --> 00:35:12,470
spy on the Russians kind of thing all

781
00:35:18,220 --> 00:35:15,079
that's the very well-documented made

782
00:35:20,769 --> 00:35:18,230
movies about and clearly existed we have

783
00:35:22,779 --> 00:35:20,779
Jimmy Carter on record former President

784
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:22,789
Jimmy Carter saying yeah I wind it into

785
00:35:26,019 --> 00:35:24,170
this room and this guy went into a

786
00:35:27,579 --> 00:35:26,029
trance and he gave us the coordinates

787
00:35:29,230 --> 00:35:27,589
for the plane and we're able to go find

788
00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:29,240
the plane so all this stuff is

789
00:35:34,749 --> 00:35:32,240
documented what is also documented is

790
00:35:38,259 --> 00:35:34,759
that these remote viewers encountered

791
00:35:41,529 --> 00:35:38,269
aliens or if we look at extended human

792
00:35:43,930 --> 00:35:41,539
consciousness as it works in laboratory

793
00:35:46,539 --> 00:35:43,940
experiments with hallucinogenic drugs

794
00:35:48,789 --> 00:35:46,549
the most famous being really the only

795
00:35:50,740 --> 00:35:48,799
one who was granted right to do it as a

796
00:35:52,749 --> 00:35:50,750
guy named dr. Rick Strassman at

797
00:35:54,549 --> 00:35:52,759
University of New Mexico had him on the

798
00:35:56,859 --> 00:35:54,559
had him on the show very interesting guy

799
00:36:00,309 --> 00:35:56,869
gives these people rather high doses of

800
00:36:03,249 --> 00:36:00,319
DMT boom and pop the aliens he's seeing

801
00:36:05,620 --> 00:36:03,259
some of the same beings that abductees

802
00:36:07,359 --> 00:36:05,630
are talking about so or if you talk

803
00:36:09,460 --> 00:36:07,369
about people who have reported

804
00:36:12,279 --> 00:36:09,470
out-of-body experiences you'll get

805
00:36:15,730 --> 00:36:12,289
similar kind of every once in a while

806
00:36:17,859 --> 00:36:15,740
encounters with these alien beings so

807
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:17,869
it's beyond telepathy

808
00:36:22,930 --> 00:36:20,450
it's almost wherever you look in these

809
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:22,940
realms of extended human consciousness

810
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:25,970
and the research associated with it you

811
00:36:32,109 --> 00:36:29,930
start bumping into the phenomena that we

812
00:36:34,980 --> 00:36:32,119
generally call you know encounters with

813
00:36:38,410 --> 00:36:34,990
aliens so any thoughts on any of that

814
00:36:40,210 --> 00:36:38,420
yes first of all I'm not an expert in

815
00:36:44,589 --> 00:36:40,220
any of these things and not in remote

816
00:36:46,749 --> 00:36:44,599
viewing although when Stanford Research

817
00:36:48,430 --> 00:36:46,759
Institute was it was had helped put off

818
00:36:50,259 --> 00:36:48,440
in the and Russell targeted together

819
00:36:51,849 --> 00:36:50,269
that they presented to help put off you

820
00:36:53,470 --> 00:36:51,859
said in the paper on reviewing at the

821
00:36:54,599 --> 00:36:53,480
site of scientific explanation many

822
00:36:58,180 --> 00:36:54,609
years ago that I found extremely

823
00:37:00,670 --> 00:36:58,190
interesting so that's as much as I know

824
00:37:04,150 --> 00:37:00,680
about it I do know that people who have

825
00:37:06,309 --> 00:37:04,160
remote viewing in RIBA and viewed

826
00:37:09,039 --> 00:37:06,319
abductions or whatever they had

827
00:37:12,819 --> 00:37:09,049
absolutely nothing to do with the real

828
00:37:16,059 --> 00:37:12,829
abduction phenomenon and when people

829
00:37:18,759 --> 00:37:16,069
channeled abductions that their material

830
00:37:20,310 --> 00:37:18,769
has nothing to do with the abduction

831
00:37:21,870 --> 00:37:20,320
phenomenon either even though they

832
00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:21,880
they're channeling aliens and this and

833
00:37:27,180 --> 00:37:24,960
that nothing else made any sense to me

834
00:37:28,830 --> 00:37:27,190
don't you tell us what you mean when you

835
00:37:32,550 --> 00:37:28,840
say that cuz you sound very confident in

836
00:37:34,980 --> 00:37:32,560
saying well for example one time many

837
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:34,990
years ago there were thirty remote

838
00:37:41,100 --> 00:37:38,170
viewers I know it's our thirty

839
00:37:42,900 --> 00:37:41,110
channelers I guess it was who got into a

840
00:37:45,450 --> 00:37:42,910
room and they were all supposed to

841
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:45,460
channel aliens one of them was an

842
00:37:51,950 --> 00:37:48,370
abductee who reported back to us what

843
00:37:55,350 --> 00:37:51,960
happened and this was actually within

844
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:55,360
she was a working with by Hopkins the

845
00:37:59,610 --> 00:37:57,490
famous a UFO abduction researcher at the

846
00:38:01,500 --> 00:37:59,620
time when she began to talk about what

847
00:38:03,330 --> 00:38:01,510
they were describing we knew immediately

848
00:38:06,030 --> 00:38:03,340
that this had nothing to do with the

849
00:38:08,670 --> 00:38:06,040
abduction phenomenon everything was

850
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:08,680
different to their that they were nice

851
00:38:13,170 --> 00:38:11,170
aliens there they were they were

852
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:13,180
apparently from what she described they

853
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:14,530
were all different from each other as

854
00:38:20,190 --> 00:38:16,450
well other than through what they picked

855
00:38:24,030 --> 00:38:20,200
up in popular culture so and and I've

856
00:38:25,740 --> 00:38:24,040
dealt with people who are channelers and

857
00:38:29,310 --> 00:38:25,750
one person was a remote viewers I

858
00:38:31,410 --> 00:38:29,320
remember and their conscious memories of

859
00:38:34,650 --> 00:38:31,420
doing this had nothing to do with what

860
00:38:37,740 --> 00:38:34,660
they remembered in hypnosis as actually

861
00:38:39,630 --> 00:38:37,750
happening to them and this is you know

862
00:38:41,490 --> 00:38:39,640
you're dealing ultimately with a problem

863
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:41,500
of consciousness on all these levels

864
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:45,130
Auto Body experiences I've had people

865
00:38:47,970 --> 00:38:46,690
have had those two they recognize

866
00:38:51,690 --> 00:38:47,980
immediately they've got nothing to do

867
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:51,700
with abductions DMT is something that I

868
00:38:58,410 --> 00:38:56,770
did read Stressless book and it wasn't

869
00:39:00,510 --> 00:38:58,420
the abduction phenomenon then people

870
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:00,520
might be think their ceiling is seeing

871
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:02,650
aliens or having there's another one you

872
00:39:08,190 --> 00:39:05,010
you you you forgot to mention that was

873
00:39:10,770 --> 00:39:08,200
putting electrodes on a person's brain

874
00:39:13,590 --> 00:39:10,780
and and throwing a charge to the brain

875
00:39:15,450 --> 00:39:13,600
and having people to get a sense of her

876
00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:15,460
snakes are you know she's Michael prank

877
00:39:21,240 --> 00:39:18,250
Michael Persinger only a nice guy and

878
00:39:23,450 --> 00:39:21,250
people get a sense of the presence in

879
00:39:25,620 --> 00:39:23,460
the room or seeing somebody there or

880
00:39:29,130 --> 00:39:25,630
floating or a light and that sort of

881
00:39:30,750 --> 00:39:29,140
stuff here's the situation we know one

882
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:30,760
hell of a lot about the abduction

883
00:39:33,539 --> 00:39:32,650
phenomenon most people don't know

884
00:39:38,279 --> 00:39:33,549
anything about it

885
00:39:40,589 --> 00:39:38,289
and not even abductors and with with

886
00:39:42,389 --> 00:39:40,599
Persinger and with others like this so

887
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:42,399
they've done a bunch like this what they

888
00:39:47,099 --> 00:39:45,130
do is they don't recognize they don't

889
00:39:50,009 --> 00:39:47,109
know anything about abductions so if the

890
00:39:52,499 --> 00:39:50,019
abduction goes from a something is

891
00:39:55,859 --> 00:39:52,509
happening I think I'm somebody's coming

892
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:55,869
into my home or so my car is stopped on

893
00:40:00,269 --> 00:39:57,249
the side of the road and I don't know

894
00:40:03,509 --> 00:40:00,279
why or whatever it is the beginning that

895
00:40:05,939 --> 00:40:03,519
would be a all the way to Z I'm back in

896
00:40:08,669 --> 00:40:05,949
my car and back in my home I'm back in

897
00:40:12,329 --> 00:40:08,679
my backyard whatever it is that's what

898
00:40:15,029 --> 00:40:12,339
they can recreate to a degree I feel a

899
00:40:18,569 --> 00:40:15,039
presence I see somebody

900
00:40:22,319 --> 00:40:18,579
something like that they can recreate a

901
00:40:26,009 --> 00:40:22,329
tiny little piece of it be through the

902
00:40:28,319 --> 00:40:26,019
rest of the alphabet they ignore that

903
00:40:31,380 --> 00:40:28,329
doesn't exist they don't go into that

904
00:40:33,359 --> 00:40:31,390
and all of these other accounts are like

905
00:40:35,429 --> 00:40:33,369
that too there's no depth to them

906
00:40:37,079 --> 00:40:35,439
there's no detail to them there's no

907
00:40:39,809 --> 00:40:37,089
preciseness to them

908
00:40:42,299 --> 00:40:39,819
there's no chronology that goes on for

909
00:40:43,079 --> 00:40:42,309
several hours there's nothing like that

910
00:40:47,429 --> 00:40:43,089
at all

911
00:40:48,870 --> 00:40:47,439
and and and with me remote viewing you

912
00:40:52,620 --> 00:40:48,880
have people who are seeing religious

913
00:40:54,209 --> 00:40:52,630
figures and and and traveling around the

914
00:40:55,979 --> 00:40:54,219
world and this and that even though as I

915
00:40:59,459 --> 00:40:55,989
said I saw a very interesting paper on

916
00:41:01,079 --> 00:40:59,469
it once but but but none of this relates

917
00:41:02,579 --> 00:41:01,089
to the reality of the abduction of

918
00:41:05,789 --> 00:41:02,589
phenomena none of this takes into

919
00:41:08,429 --> 00:41:05,799
account the evidence all people who are

920
00:41:09,989 --> 00:41:08,439
debunkers all of them of this of the

921
00:41:12,329 --> 00:41:09,999
abduction phenomenon and there are there

922
00:41:16,559 --> 00:41:12,339
are no exceptions to this really either

923
00:41:20,099 --> 00:41:16,569
don't know the evidence they ignore the

924
00:41:24,329 --> 00:41:20,109
evidence if they do know it or they

925
00:41:27,179 --> 00:41:24,339
simply distort the evidence to conform

926
00:41:30,299 --> 00:41:27,189
to their own own opinions and ideas

927
00:41:32,429 --> 00:41:30,309
I have found no exceptions to that not

928
00:41:36,539 --> 00:41:32,439
none of them really take into account

929
00:41:38,189 --> 00:41:36,549
the full range of evidence of the

930
00:41:40,469 --> 00:41:38,199
phenomenon that what happens to people

931
00:41:43,259 --> 00:41:40,479
over and over and over again and why it

932
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:43,269
happens and this and that and and I

933
00:41:49,230 --> 00:41:46,810
haven't posted book on on UFO since 1998

934
00:41:51,420 --> 00:41:49,240
abduction since 1998 and I'm I'm the

935
00:41:53,670 --> 00:41:51,430
process of finishing this one I've been

936
00:41:56,490 --> 00:41:53,680
working out for the past five years and

937
00:42:00,360 --> 00:41:56,500
I must say I have learned an awful lot

938
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:00,370
more about this subject and especially

939
00:42:07,980 --> 00:42:03,370
about about hybridization and all that

940
00:42:11,370 --> 00:42:07,990
and nobody has ever ever said anything

941
00:42:13,590 --> 00:42:11,380
that I've been learning about and since

942
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:13,600
1998 they just because it hasn't been

943
00:42:17,310 --> 00:42:15,970
published yet but hold on because I

944
00:42:19,980 --> 00:42:17,320
think we need to kind of pull some

945
00:42:22,710 --> 00:42:19,990
things apart we need to pull apart the

946
00:42:25,590 --> 00:42:22,720
debunkers the skeptics and people who

947
00:42:27,150 --> 00:42:25,600
have a different agenda but but those

948
00:42:29,070 --> 00:42:27,160
people are out there and they they're

949
00:42:31,110 --> 00:42:29,080
playing a different game I'm really

950
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:31,120
talking about the other side of that

951
00:42:36,690 --> 00:42:34,090
people who are number one looking at

952
00:42:38,220 --> 00:42:36,700
this extended consciousness and again I

953
00:42:39,450 --> 00:42:38,230
think we kind of mixed a bunch of stuff

954
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:39,460
together there

955
00:42:46,830 --> 00:42:43,210
that there's a reality to extended human

956
00:42:48,810 --> 00:42:46,840
consciousness clearly from a science

957
00:42:50,820 --> 00:42:48,820
standpoint the clearest evidence for

958
00:42:54,060 --> 00:42:50,830
that is in the near-death experience

959
00:42:56,340 --> 00:42:54,070
we're in some strange way it's like the

960
00:42:58,830 --> 00:42:56,350
alien abduction experience in that we

961
00:43:01,860 --> 00:42:58,840
have just mountains and mountains of

962
00:43:04,170 --> 00:43:01,870
evidence first-person accounts group

963
00:43:05,910 --> 00:43:04,180
accounts where people have a shared and

964
00:43:08,100 --> 00:43:05,920
here if death experience people standing

965
00:43:10,970 --> 00:43:08,110
by their bed but we also have people who

966
00:43:14,100 --> 00:43:10,980
have no brain function are dead

967
00:43:16,710 --> 00:43:14,110
medically dead who are resuscitated and

968
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:16,720
can tell in great detail the details of

969
00:43:21,750 --> 00:43:18,370
their resuscitation and they've actually

970
00:43:24,060 --> 00:43:21,760
done peer-reviewed published studies

971
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:24,070
comparing how well they're able to

972
00:43:28,290 --> 00:43:26,410
recall the resuscitation versus a

973
00:43:30,270 --> 00:43:28,300
control group that didn't have a

974
00:43:33,830 --> 00:43:30,280
near-death experience that's established

975
00:43:36,570 --> 00:43:33,840
it still ignored denied by mainstream

976
00:43:39,090 --> 00:43:36,580
academia in science because what they do

977
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:39,100
not want to accept that we really have

978
00:43:43,620 --> 00:43:41,050
consciousness let alone that

979
00:43:46,230 --> 00:43:43,630
consciousness somehow survives death in

980
00:43:48,450 --> 00:43:46,240
a way we don't understand but hey that's

981
00:43:50,340 --> 00:43:48,460
the data in it when we have to live with

982
00:43:53,010 --> 00:43:50,350
it so where I think a lot of people are

983
00:43:54,690 --> 00:43:53,020
going in this realm is to say okay if

984
00:43:57,270 --> 00:43:54,700
that's the data and we have to live with

985
00:43:59,760 --> 00:43:57,280
it that it consciousness survives death

986
00:44:00,750 --> 00:43:59,770
then consciousness is somehow in some

987
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:00,760
way we don't underst

988
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:02,890
and separate from the brain or

989
00:44:07,380 --> 00:44:04,930
coexisting in the brain but kind of

990
00:44:10,020 --> 00:44:07,390
separate and then that gives a different

991
00:44:12,410 --> 00:44:10,030
spin on all these things that we've been

992
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:12,420
talking about so your DMT trip now

993
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:16,090
doesn't have to be just an illusion and

994
00:44:20,940 --> 00:44:18,850
remote viewing can have a reality to it

995
00:44:23,490 --> 00:44:20,950
and maybe even medium communication

996
00:44:26,610 --> 00:44:23,500
channeling is very problematic as you

997
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:26,620
mentioned but let's throw that back on

998
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:29,770
the table and first of all do you accept

999
00:44:36,510 --> 00:44:33,370
the idea that consciousness is somehow

1000
00:44:37,740 --> 00:44:36,520
in some way we don't understand the went

1001
00:44:40,140 --> 00:44:37,750
the phrase I always like is

1002
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:40,150
ontologically distinct you know it's not

1003
00:44:46,470 --> 00:44:43,210
just the brain there's something more to

1004
00:44:48,780 --> 00:44:46,480
it you know it's it's an area that that

1005
00:44:53,220 --> 00:44:48,790
I know so little about and then I have

1006
00:44:55,710 --> 00:44:53,230
done no studies in and that even - say

1007
00:44:59,490 --> 00:44:55,720
yes or no and that is is going to is

1008
00:45:01,020 --> 00:44:59,500
gonna be a gas i I just I don't you know

1009
00:45:03,570 --> 00:45:01,030
I don't know how to respond to that

1010
00:45:06,150 --> 00:45:03,580
because people have know a hell of a lot

1011
00:45:07,890 --> 00:45:06,160
more about these things than I do and I

1012
00:45:09,930 --> 00:45:07,900
can only relate them to the abduction

1013
00:45:11,580 --> 00:45:09,940
phenomenon yeah fair enough fair enough

1014
00:45:13,530 --> 00:45:11,590
dr. James I don't want to get us off

1015
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:13,540
track because we're I really wanted to

1016
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:16,090
do is pull that back to the abduction

1017
00:45:20,580 --> 00:45:18,610
phenomena because from my perspective

1018
00:45:23,490 --> 00:45:20,590
addict again coming at it from this

1019
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:23,500
extended human consciousness angle that

1020
00:45:29,730 --> 00:45:26,490
seems to be at the core of the debate

1021
00:45:31,500 --> 00:45:29,740
once you jump past all the silliness

1022
00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:31,510
we're talking about in terms of people

1023
00:45:35,490 --> 00:45:33,760
saying well it it can't exist it doesn't

1024
00:45:37,380 --> 00:45:35,500
exist you know once you jump past that

1025
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:37,390
you say okay there's some reality to

1026
00:45:41,850 --> 00:45:39,850
this phenomena let's figure out what it

1027
00:45:44,850 --> 00:45:41,860
is let's figure out what the possible

1028
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:44,860
purpose agenda is all those things then

1029
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:46,450
you really kind of break down into these

1030
00:45:51,660 --> 00:45:49,050
two camps you know in that book that I

1031
00:45:53,790 --> 00:45:51,670
mentioned earlier and UFOs and

1032
00:45:56,130 --> 00:45:53,800
abductions challenging the borders of

1033
00:45:59,100 --> 00:45:56,140
knowledge you included a chapter in

1034
00:46:01,200 --> 00:45:59,110
there from Harvard psychiatrist John

1035
00:46:03,900 --> 00:46:01,210
Mack who unfortunately passed away in

1036
00:46:04,740 --> 00:46:03,910
2004 but was someone who really along

1037
00:46:07,650 --> 00:46:04,750
with you

1038
00:46:09,980 --> 00:46:07,660
and of course Budd Hopkins really drove

1039
00:46:13,020 --> 00:46:09,990
all this stuff into the public attention

1040
00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:13,030
because he was a Harvard psychiatrist he

1041
00:46:16,860 --> 00:46:14,560
was certainly qualified to

1042
00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:16,870
tell whether someone was delusional or

1043
00:46:21,630 --> 00:46:18,730
whether someone had some other reason

1044
00:46:23,340 --> 00:46:21,640
for making up these stories he looked at

1045
00:46:26,940 --> 00:46:23,350
and said hey this thing is real from

1046
00:46:29,370 --> 00:46:26,950
every way that I can look at it but his

1047
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:29,380
conclusion and this is further carried

1048
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:31,810
on with the other camp that there is out

1049
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:34,690
there now was that these experiences

1050
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:38,770
were somehow spiritual spiritually

1051
00:46:43,890 --> 00:46:41,650
transformative experiences and I think

1052
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:43,900
we can only understand or even begin to

1053
00:46:51,060 --> 00:46:48,450
look at those in that way if we look at

1054
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:51,070
consciousness as being more than purely

1055
00:46:55,890 --> 00:46:53,410
biological but what I want to really

1056
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:55,900
kind of ferret out in the time that we

1057
00:47:01,140 --> 00:46:57,490
have the generous time that you've given

1058
00:47:03,930 --> 00:47:01,150
me is these two camps the alien

1059
00:47:06,540 --> 00:47:03,940
abduction experience as a shamanic

1060
00:47:08,460 --> 00:47:06,550
initiation a spiritually transformative

1061
00:47:10,650 --> 00:47:08,470
experience those aren't my terms those

1062
00:47:13,380 --> 00:47:10,660
are the terms you hear from people in

1063
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:13,390
kind of the John Mac camp if you will as

1064
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:17,410
opposed to alien abductions as an

1065
00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:20,650
intrusion on the human species as a real

1066
00:47:26,490 --> 00:47:24,250
abduction in in all the worst sense of

1067
00:47:29,250 --> 00:47:26,500
the word that you really come at it from

1068
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:29,260
in of course but Hopkins did as well so

1069
00:47:38,340 --> 00:47:32,050
there it is laid out what do you think

1070
00:47:41,190 --> 00:47:38,350
well I have not found any people since

1071
00:47:43,770 --> 00:47:41,200
1986 who found this to be spiritually

1072
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:43,780
transforming you have to understand that

1073
00:47:48,060 --> 00:47:45,490
the abduction phenomenon begins in

1074
00:47:50,730 --> 00:47:48,070
infancy and goes into old age it happens

1075
00:47:54,180 --> 00:47:50,740
with great rapidity goes on over and

1076
00:47:56,190 --> 00:47:54,190
over and over and over again these

1077
00:47:57,780 --> 00:47:56,200
people must be so spiritually advanced

1078
00:47:59,610 --> 00:47:57,790
and so spiritually transformed by the

1079
00:48:02,430 --> 00:47:59,620
time they see me that they're living in

1080
00:48:05,790 --> 00:48:02,440
another plateau of consciousness

1081
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:05,800
altogether that is not the case what

1082
00:48:09,720 --> 00:48:07,690
these people want to know is what in the

1083
00:48:13,020 --> 00:48:09,730
hell has been going on with them well

1084
00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:13,030
why is it why is it that they wake up

1085
00:48:16,950 --> 00:48:15,250
one morning and they're in somebody

1086
00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:16,960
else's room and they did they're not a

1087
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:21,250
sleepwalker why is it that here's an

1088
00:48:24,660 --> 00:48:23,050
event for example two people are driving

1089
00:48:28,470 --> 00:48:24,670
down the street

1090
00:48:31,590 --> 00:48:28,480
the this a husband and a wife and they

1091
00:48:33,330 --> 00:48:31,600
look outside out the window of their car

1092
00:48:35,460 --> 00:48:33,340
and they see a light and suddenly

1093
00:48:37,530 --> 00:48:35,470
there's a flash they look at each other

1094
00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:37,540
and they say what the heck was that

1095
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:40,480
and they realize it's two hours later

1096
00:48:43,020 --> 00:48:41,890
they're still in the car and they're

1097
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:43,030
still driving and they're in the same

1098
00:48:50,670 --> 00:48:45,850
spot and this is two people and one of

1099
00:48:52,500 --> 00:48:50,680
them was a scientist and this is this is

1100
00:48:55,830 --> 00:48:52,510
not consciousness-raising this is like

1101
00:48:59,100 --> 00:48:55,840
consciousness denying this is

1102
00:49:01,980 --> 00:48:59,110
consciousness lowering in a sense so I I

1103
00:49:04,140 --> 00:49:01,990
just I mean I don't I don't have a any

1104
00:49:05,820 --> 00:49:04,150
stake in it would be wonderful if it is

1105
00:49:08,850 --> 00:49:05,830
I think that John was just dead wrong

1106
00:49:11,430 --> 00:49:08,860
John that in his analysis of this and in

1107
00:49:14,070 --> 00:49:11,440
fact he tried and tried and tried and

1108
00:49:16,170 --> 00:49:14,080
tried and tried to ram the abduction

1109
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:16,180
phenomenon into his preconceived ideas

1110
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:18,810
about consciousness and never could and

1111
00:49:22,530 --> 00:49:20,890
eventually he just people most people

1112
00:49:23,670 --> 00:49:22,540
don't realize this he gave up he said he

1113
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:23,680
said that's it I don't want to do it

1114
00:49:27,870 --> 00:49:25,330
anymore because it could never conform

1115
00:49:29,610 --> 00:49:27,880
to his ideas and two years before he

1116
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:29,620
died he stopped doing abduction research

1117
00:49:35,340 --> 00:49:31,450
altogether closed up his peer group at

1118
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:35,350
Harvard and and and and it's told Budd

1119
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:37,330
Hopkins that maybe he had been a little

1120
00:49:44,190 --> 00:49:41,650
bit too gullible in this situation of

1121
00:49:46,410 --> 00:49:44,200
abductions and and it couldn't there he

1122
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:46,420
could never fit it into what he wanted

1123
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:48,970
it to be yeah but but we have to what

1124
00:49:52,020 --> 00:49:50,290
you have to be careful with that because

1125
00:49:57,030 --> 00:49:52,030
a lot of people would make the same

1126
00:49:59,280 --> 00:49:57,040
accusation to you so I know that's that

1127
00:50:01,740 --> 00:49:59,290
they can't do I didn't know what this

1128
00:50:03,900 --> 00:50:01,750
thing was and had no no expectations

1129
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:03,910
about what it was all about until I

1130
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:05,410
started researching it and then I

1131
00:50:10,140 --> 00:50:08,770
realized now I'm understanding I hear

1132
00:50:11,430 --> 00:50:10,150
you on that in other words I didn't I

1133
00:50:13,620 --> 00:50:11,440
didn't I didn't stake out a position

1134
00:50:15,330 --> 00:50:13,630
beforehand whereas John that study with

1135
00:50:17,910 --> 00:50:15,340
stanislav grof when was very much

1136
00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:17,920
influenced by ruffian techniques and

1137
00:50:22,110 --> 00:50:20,250
consciousness racing and consciousness

1138
00:50:24,420 --> 00:50:22,120
existing outside of the mind and all

1139
00:50:26,460 --> 00:50:24,430
that and I hadn't I mean I'm perfectly

1140
00:50:28,530 --> 00:50:26,470
happy to believe that if that was the

1141
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:28,540
evidence I found that I you know it

1142
00:50:34,830 --> 00:50:30,570
doesn't matter to me that's fine but

1143
00:50:36,660 --> 00:50:34,840
since dr. Mac isn't here too it kind of

1144
00:50:38,340 --> 00:50:36,670
pinned down or elaborate on what his

1145
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:38,350
position was or how it changed

1146
00:50:43,350 --> 00:50:40,210
or whatever the point I'm making is that

1147
00:50:45,630 --> 00:50:43,360
that research has continued you know one

1148
00:50:49,380 --> 00:50:45,640
of the guests I had on my show episode

1149
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:49,390
212 was dr. Janet collie licensed

1150
00:50:53,940 --> 00:50:50,410
therapist

1151
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:53,950
works in the Seattle area specializes in

1152
00:50:59,130 --> 00:50:56,290
post-traumatic stress disorder sees a

1153
00:51:01,590 --> 00:50:59,140
lot of patients with different kinds of

1154
00:51:04,170 --> 00:51:01,600
stress but deals with trauma and has

1155
00:51:06,720 --> 00:51:04,180
dealt with the abduction experience in

1156
00:51:08,670 --> 00:51:06,730
great detail with a lot of her patients

1157
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:08,680
just published a book came on our show

1158
00:51:12,660 --> 00:51:10,410
to talk about sacred encounters

1159
00:51:14,670 --> 00:51:12,670
spiritual encounters during close

1160
00:51:16,410 --> 00:51:14,680
encounters we can get down and argue

1161
00:51:18,210 --> 00:51:16,420
about her methodology her techniques

1162
00:51:20,550 --> 00:51:18,220
well that's that's the critical event

1163
00:51:25,950 --> 00:51:20,560
that's that is that is the arguable

1164
00:51:27,270 --> 00:51:25,960
point that is right so how do we get to

1165
00:51:29,450 --> 00:51:27,280
the bottom of that I mean here here are

1166
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:29,460
someone who could kind of throw stones

1167
00:51:36,300 --> 00:51:33,130
across the the yard to and say hey I'm a

1168
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:36,310
licensed clinical therapist makes no

1169
00:51:42,330 --> 00:51:39,370
difference that makes no difference

1170
00:51:46,050 --> 00:51:42,340
whatsoever the abduction phenomenon

1171
00:51:48,900 --> 00:51:46,060
hypnosis is unique it it doesn't follow

1172
00:51:50,340 --> 00:51:48,910
along the same lines as as forensic

1173
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:50,350
hypnosis although that would be the

1174
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:52,930
closest to it or stage hypnosis which

1175
00:51:57,750 --> 00:51:54,610
would be the farthest away from it or

1176
00:52:00,660 --> 00:51:57,760
any other forms of hypnosis to get you

1177
00:52:05,130 --> 00:52:00,670
to stop eating chocolate cake or smoking

1178
00:52:07,980 --> 00:52:05,140
or or relaxing you're saying that the

1179
00:52:11,010 --> 00:52:07,990
hypnosis regression sessions that are

1180
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:11,020
done for retrieving memories of an alien

1181
00:52:15,990 --> 00:52:13,930
counter are are somehow fundamentally

1182
00:52:18,060 --> 00:52:16,000
different yes and they're fundamentally

1183
00:52:20,730 --> 00:52:18,070
different because the person has to know

1184
00:52:23,790 --> 00:52:20,740
a tremendous amount about the abduction

1185
00:52:26,070 --> 00:52:23,800
phenomenon the problem here is that in

1186
00:52:28,710 --> 00:52:26,080
hypnosis people tend to say things that

1187
00:52:30,660 --> 00:52:28,720
are not true they think they are true

1188
00:52:34,590 --> 00:52:30,670
they're not lying but they're

1189
00:52:38,430 --> 00:52:34,600
confabulating and I was caught in that

1190
00:52:41,370 --> 00:52:38,440
there early early on I have all examples

1191
00:52:43,590 --> 00:52:41,380
of it that that that I can tell you but

1192
00:52:45,240 --> 00:52:43,600
I won't bore you with them right now but

1193
00:52:48,810 --> 00:52:45,250
people were telling me things that I

1194
00:52:51,030 --> 00:52:48,820
bought and turned out not to be true and

1195
00:52:52,300 --> 00:52:51,040
then you have to learn techniques for

1196
00:52:55,300 --> 00:52:52,310
how to get around

1197
00:52:58,480 --> 00:52:55,310
that how to recognize confabulation when

1198
00:53:00,690 --> 00:52:58,490
you hear it and how to push past that

1199
00:53:04,660 --> 00:53:00,700
and get to the reality of the situation

1200
00:53:06,820 --> 00:53:04,670
this is a phenomenon that is clandestine

1201
00:53:08,740 --> 00:53:06,830
it is secret without secrecy there would

1202
00:53:11,650 --> 00:53:08,750
be no abduction phenomenon whatsoever

1203
00:53:14,260 --> 00:53:11,660
we'd find ways to stop it that it would

1204
00:53:15,700 --> 00:53:14,270
be a whole different world but then

1205
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:15,710
order to keep it secret they have to

1206
00:53:21,850 --> 00:53:18,170
keep a secret from the abductee first

1207
00:53:23,410 --> 00:53:21,860
and when that happens they just bury

1208
00:53:25,540 --> 00:53:23,420
their memory in some way and I'm

1209
00:53:28,180 --> 00:53:25,550
obviously using non technical terms but

1210
00:53:31,870 --> 00:53:28,190
there's obviously some sort of blockage

1211
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:31,880
for short-term memory long-term memory

1212
00:53:38,020 --> 00:53:34,370
stays intact but the fact is though that

1213
00:53:40,690 --> 00:53:38,030
that you have to know the right

1214
00:53:42,970 --> 00:53:40,700
questions to ask in the right way at the

1215
00:53:44,590 --> 00:53:42,980
right time you have to understand what

1216
00:53:46,540 --> 00:53:44,600
the answers are and you have to evaluate

1217
00:53:49,270 --> 00:53:46,550
the answers as they go along

1218
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:49,280
then you have to have more than one

1219
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:50,930
session with a person you have to have a

1220
00:53:57,910 --> 00:53:53,090
lot of sessions the key thing here is

1221
00:53:59,920 --> 00:53:57,920
you cannot have an agenda what you're

1222
00:54:02,910 --> 00:53:59,930
looking for is just the facts ma'am as

1223
00:54:05,830 --> 00:54:02,920
they used to say on the dragnet TV show

1224
00:54:08,470 --> 00:54:05,840
you're just looking for what happened to

1225
00:54:10,090 --> 00:54:08,480
them if they start stamp saying things

1226
00:54:12,460 --> 00:54:10,100
like why this is happening

1227
00:54:14,260 --> 00:54:12,470
that's confabulation because they

1228
00:54:15,700 --> 00:54:14,270
usually ninety-nine percent of the time

1229
00:54:18,580 --> 00:54:15,710
they have no idea why anything is

1230
00:54:21,790 --> 00:54:18,590
happening if they say what a machine is

1231
00:54:23,710 --> 00:54:21,800
for that's confabulation they have to

1232
00:54:25,210 --> 00:54:23,720
say things that are different than that

1233
00:54:26,980 --> 00:54:25,220
in other words there's a technique to

1234
00:54:28,750 --> 00:54:26,990
abduction hypnosis that regular

1235
00:54:31,870 --> 00:54:28,760
hypnotist they're out or whether they're

1236
00:54:34,870 --> 00:54:31,880
licensed clinical hypnotherapist or not

1237
00:54:37,150 --> 00:54:34,880
that they don't understand or no and

1238
00:54:39,820 --> 00:54:37,160
they think they do but they don't but

1239
00:54:42,940 --> 00:54:39,830
you gotta appreciate that you would get

1240
00:54:45,460 --> 00:54:42,950
a ton of pushback from someone who's

1241
00:54:46,990 --> 00:54:45,470
trained as a clinical hypnotherapist and

1242
00:54:50,170 --> 00:54:47,000
has worked with thousands of people

1243
00:54:52,330 --> 00:54:50,180
would say hey how would you support such

1244
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:52,340
a claim how would you support such a

1245
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:54,290
statement is that I mean this isn't

1246
00:54:58,630 --> 00:54:56,810
really your technical training or your

1247
00:55:00,640 --> 00:54:58,640
your background it's just something

1248
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:00,650
you've experienced why wouldn't people

1249
00:55:06,350 --> 00:55:03,290
make the same charges with you that

1250
00:55:08,590 --> 00:55:06,360
unwittingly you have an agenda

1251
00:55:11,980 --> 00:55:08,600
unwittingly you're leading people

1252
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:11,990
unwittingly you your methodology is

1253
00:55:16,910 --> 00:55:14,370
fine-tuned for you to get the results

1254
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:16,920
that you want I mean there has to be

1255
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:19,650
some objective way of figuring this

1256
00:55:23,930 --> 00:55:21,690
stuff out we can't just take it on face

1257
00:55:26,270 --> 00:55:23,940
value that G your way is the right way

1258
00:55:28,430 --> 00:55:26,280
it's this is a difficult question to

1259
00:55:30,230 --> 00:55:28,440
answer because there isn't a number of

1260
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:30,240
people who've come forward with the

1261
00:55:35,380 --> 00:55:32,370
actual techniques that they use I'm

1262
00:55:37,550 --> 00:55:35,390
writing a book on methodology as

1263
00:55:39,110 --> 00:55:37,560
abduction hypnosis this is the middle

1264
00:55:41,450 --> 00:55:39,120
book that's already basically finished

1265
00:55:43,250 --> 00:55:41,460
and you'll understand exactly how I work

1266
00:55:45,620 --> 00:55:43,260
and what I do and and and and the

1267
00:55:47,210 --> 00:55:45,630
problem of confabulation the problem of

1268
00:55:48,740 --> 00:55:47,220
the first session that you use with a

1269
00:55:50,420 --> 00:55:48,750
person the problem of the second session

1270
00:55:52,250 --> 00:55:50,430
the problem with the third session

1271
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:52,260
problems with the fourth session they're

1272
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:52,890
all different

1273
00:56:00,530 --> 00:55:56,610
etc etc let's just take the world word

1274
00:56:03,890 --> 00:56:00,540
trauma which everybody focuses on if

1275
00:56:06,980 --> 00:56:03,900
this is a phenomenon that began in

1276
00:56:09,230 --> 00:56:06,990
infancy and continued with frequency all

1277
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:09,240
the way through to when the person is 40

1278
00:56:13,580 --> 00:56:11,090
years old and they come to me and

1279
00:56:16,490 --> 00:56:13,590
they've had an abduction let's just say

1280
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:16,500
the night before and let's just say a

1281
00:56:22,780 --> 00:56:19,410
week before that and a week before that

1282
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:22,790
there or whatever however many it is the

1283
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:27,930
question then is how attic is this

1284
00:56:33,170 --> 00:56:30,170
phenomenon that has been part-and-parcel

1285
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:33,180
of their lives since they were children

1286
00:56:38,150 --> 00:56:37,050
and what I found is that yes it is

1287
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:38,160
traumatic

1288
00:56:44,030 --> 00:56:41,850
but that's trauma oftentimes comes not

1289
00:56:47,500 --> 00:56:44,040
just in it happening otherwise these

1290
00:56:51,020 --> 00:56:47,510
people would be wrecks it comes in

1291
00:56:54,020 --> 00:56:51,030
remembering what happens that trauma

1292
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:54,030
tends to leave relat well excuse me

1293
00:56:59,780 --> 00:56:56,970
relatively quickly after the second or

1294
00:57:02,180 --> 00:56:59,790
third session and there are ways there

1295
00:57:08,450 --> 00:57:02,190
are psychological ways of putting into

1296
00:57:12,370 --> 00:57:08,460
effect how can I put barriers to to that

1297
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:12,380
now I got let's put it this way helpful

1298
00:57:18,820 --> 00:57:15,290
suggestions to avoid that

1299
00:57:22,330 --> 00:57:18,830
and consequently the word trauma has

1300
00:57:25,500 --> 00:57:22,340
become a watched a watchword for for the

1301
00:57:27,790 --> 00:57:25,510
abduction phenomenon as a whole in fact

1302
00:57:31,090 --> 00:57:27,800
when people come to me for 10 sessions

1303
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:31,100
20 sessions 30 sessions you know over

1304
00:57:35,830 --> 00:57:32,930
the period of months I've been fortunate

1305
00:57:37,930 --> 00:57:35,840
enough to work with people for for years

1306
00:57:40,030 --> 00:57:37,940
and years and years and years they

1307
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:40,040
understand what's going on they get it

1308
00:57:43,570 --> 00:57:42,170
they they know they know how long it's

1309
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:43,580
been going on we've done stuff from when

1310
00:57:47,260 --> 00:57:45,050
they were children and they're the

1311
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:47,270
adolescents and now they're now they're

1312
00:57:53,350 --> 00:57:49,490
60 years old and then and it's you know

1313
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:53,360
they become like scientist observers in

1314
00:57:59,260 --> 00:57:55,570
a sense they're reporting back they know

1315
00:58:01,630 --> 00:57:59,270
what is happening now they are trying to

1316
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:01,640
figure out exactly their reasons they're

1317
00:58:05,170 --> 00:58:03,050
trying to figure out their they're

1318
00:58:07,090 --> 00:58:05,180
trying to be more precise in their in

1319
00:58:09,340 --> 00:58:07,100
what they're thinking

1320
00:58:14,110 --> 00:58:09,350
I do things on a logical and

1321
00:58:18,100 --> 00:58:14,120
chronological kind of level so that I'm

1322
00:58:19,690 --> 00:58:18,110
not injecting anything into them and in

1323
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:19,700
fact I've done experiments with them I

1324
00:58:23,950 --> 00:58:22,130
tell them people I say to them you know

1325
00:58:27,010 --> 00:58:23,960
what you just told me about that that

1326
00:58:28,780 --> 00:58:27,020
sounds like a dream this really sounds

1327
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:28,790
like a dream I don't think this happened

1328
00:58:33,190 --> 00:58:30,530
I think this is a dream then I'll say

1329
00:58:38,890 --> 00:58:33,200
just before I do hypnosis I'll say this

1330
00:58:41,170 --> 00:58:38,900
is a dream it's a direct command when I

1331
00:58:42,820 --> 00:58:41,180
do the induction which is a simple

1332
00:58:45,340 --> 00:58:42,830
relaxation induction and I started

1333
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:45,350
asking questions they couldn't care less

1334
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:49,730
about what I just informed on my of that

1335
00:58:54,070 --> 00:58:51,530
this is a dream that doesn't mean

1336
00:58:58,470 --> 00:58:54,080
anything all they know is what happened

1337
00:59:01,570 --> 00:58:58,480
to them and I start chronologically I

1338
00:59:04,270 --> 00:59:01,580
also know that areas of confabulation

1339
00:59:06,070 --> 00:59:04,280
are all over the place and the number

1340
00:59:08,410 --> 00:59:06,080
one if there's two number one areas

1341
00:59:11,170 --> 00:59:08,420
confabulation number one description of

1342
00:59:14,470 --> 00:59:11,180
aliens i don't ask people what they look

1343
00:59:16,180 --> 00:59:14,480
like anymore not until later not that

1344
00:59:19,810 --> 00:59:16,190
I'm interested I am interested I will

1345
00:59:22,300 --> 00:59:19,820
ask certain key questions that don't

1346
00:59:24,460 --> 00:59:22,310
have to have them confront the face of

1347
00:59:25,230 --> 00:59:24,470
an alien but I know that they confronted

1348
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:25,240
the faces

1349
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:29,050
of aliens all their lives but when they

1350
00:59:34,830 --> 00:59:32,290
tell me for example the I remember he

1351
00:59:37,770 --> 00:59:34,840
was wearing a mask or a hood over his

1352
00:59:40,770 --> 00:59:37,780
face so I wouldn't see him and because

1353
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:40,780
he didn't want me to be frightened when

1354
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:41,650
I saw him

1355
00:59:45,900 --> 00:59:43,170
I've heard that a whole bunch of times

1356
00:59:48,150 --> 00:59:45,910
it doesn't make any sense to me they've

1357
00:59:51,030 --> 00:59:48,160
seen these beings hundreds of times

1358
00:59:53,070 --> 00:59:51,040
perhaps you mean to say the one thing

1359
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:53,080
they remembered is one they had a hood

1360
00:59:58,530 --> 00:59:56,410
so III workaround that and eventually

1361
01:00:01,320 --> 00:59:58,540
I'll ask about the hood and then they

1362
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:01,330
realize the person isn't wearing a hood

1363
01:00:06,450 --> 01:00:03,130
and yet they thought he was wearing a

1364
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:06,460
hood all these years and things like

1365
01:00:11,970 --> 01:00:09,610
this this regular hypnotist cannot do

1366
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:11,980
they're not trained in this area this is

1367
01:00:17,100 --> 01:00:15,130
a different area of questioning you have

1368
01:00:20,310 --> 01:00:17,110
to be thoroughly knowledgeable in the

1369
01:00:21,510 --> 01:00:20,320
abduction phenomenon to do this and you

1370
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:21,520
have to understand the role of

1371
01:00:26,220 --> 01:00:23,410
confabulation the other role the other

1372
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:26,230
main area confabulation is recount the

1373
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:29,050
alien dialogue the aliens told me all

1374
01:00:36,570 --> 01:00:33,250
about love of Allah Allah well yes and

1375
01:00:39,450 --> 01:00:36,580
no nine times out of ten the following

1376
01:00:42,810 --> 01:00:39,460
event happens all communication is

1377
01:00:44,340 --> 01:00:42,820
telepathic onboard a UFO and this is

1378
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:44,350
their everybody's used to this everybody

1379
01:00:48,870 --> 01:00:47,050
knows this this is what happens that in

1380
01:00:50,580 --> 01:00:48,880
itself is astonishing because if this

1381
01:00:52,530 --> 01:00:50,590
were psychological people would not be

1382
01:00:54,030 --> 01:00:52,540
saying that that he's saying someone's

1383
01:00:56,010 --> 01:00:54,040
telepathic someone that I need to hear

1384
01:00:58,740 --> 01:00:56,020
through their years or whatever you know

1385
01:01:00,630 --> 01:00:58,750
that it would be all over the map but if

1386
01:01:01,830 --> 01:01:00,640
all communication is telepathic and you

1387
01:01:04,860 --> 01:01:01,840
ask them what what do you mean by

1388
01:01:06,750 --> 01:01:04,870
telepathic and they say well I hear it's

1389
01:01:08,580 --> 01:01:06,760
thoughts that that I convert to a word

1390
01:01:10,620 --> 01:01:08,590
so I can understand that or sometimes

1391
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:10,630
they say I hear syntax I hear actual

1392
01:01:15,450 --> 01:01:12,970
words and all that the question then is

1393
01:01:18,570 --> 01:01:15,460
what's to prevent them from hearing

1394
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:18,580
their own thoughts and then telling me

1395
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:21,250
that the aliens told that to them the

1396
01:01:26,850 --> 01:01:23,170
answer is nothing prevents that at all

1397
01:01:29,820 --> 01:01:26,860
they do it all the time it's up to me to

1398
01:01:33,060 --> 01:01:29,830
understand this as confabulation

1399
01:01:35,340 --> 01:01:33,070
this is confabulation a lot of people

1400
01:01:37,020 --> 01:01:35,350
who do this kind of work don't get that

1401
01:01:37,530 --> 01:01:37,030
they don't understand that they have not

1402
01:01:39,690 --> 01:01:37,540
been

1403
01:01:43,950 --> 01:01:39,700
there is no training period for this

1404
01:01:45,570 --> 01:01:43,960
there's no standardization it's there's

1405
01:01:47,940 --> 01:01:45,580
no standardization methodology I should

1406
01:01:50,820 --> 01:01:47,950
say what I do is logical and

1407
01:01:52,770 --> 01:01:50,830
chronological that's all thanks again to

1408
01:01:54,690 --> 01:01:52,780
dr. David Jacobs for joining me today on

1409
01:01:56,820 --> 01:01:54,700
skeptic oh there are a number of

1410
01:01:58,710 --> 01:01:56,830
questions I'd like to tee up from this

1411
01:02:00,750 --> 01:01:58,720
interview but I feel like some of them

1412
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:00,760
probably should wait until the next

1413
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:03,370
episode what I'd like to focus on today

1414
01:02:07,260 --> 01:02:04,930
of course you're free to take this

1415
01:02:08,970 --> 01:02:07,270
discussion anywhere you see fit on the

1416
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:08,980
comments or in the forum section of the

1417
01:02:13,410 --> 01:02:11,170
website but the question that I see has

1418
01:02:16,950 --> 01:02:13,420
to do with the intro and the lack of

1419
01:02:20,340 --> 01:02:16,960
acceptance among the academic in serious

1420
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:20,350
science community to the reality of this

1421
01:02:26,010 --> 01:02:23,530
phenomena it's a strange situation that

1422
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:26,020
we're in where the man on the street if

1423
01:02:32,670 --> 01:02:28,930
you will is much more willing and open

1424
01:02:34,170 --> 01:02:32,680
to accept the again rather overwhelming

1425
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:34,180
evidence I mean we have so many

1426
01:02:38,010 --> 01:02:36,130
eyewitness reports from reliable

1427
01:02:39,870 --> 01:02:38,020
witnesses and military and law

1428
01:02:41,730 --> 01:02:39,880
enforcement in the most respected

1429
01:02:43,830 --> 01:02:41,740
profession three of so many of those and

1430
01:02:46,770 --> 01:02:43,840
then we have all this government release

1431
01:02:50,430 --> 01:02:46,780
of documents how can there still be this

1432
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:50,440
complete denial among academics to dive

1433
01:02:55,740 --> 01:02:52,650
into this topic of alien contact

1434
01:02:58,290 --> 01:02:55,750
abduction consciousness interaction

1435
01:03:00,810 --> 01:02:58,300
thing it's really a strange situation

1436
01:03:03,930 --> 01:03:00,820
when we think about it and I guess in

1437
01:03:05,850 --> 01:03:03,940
that pile of questions there perhaps you

1438
01:03:07,980 --> 01:03:05,860
will find something that you want to

1439
01:03:10,830 --> 01:03:07,990
respond to of course the place to do

1440
01:03:13,590 --> 01:03:10,840
that is at The Skeptical website at SK

1441
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:13,600
EPT ICAO where you where you can leave a

1442
01:03:18,830 --> 01:03:16,330
comment or jump over to our new forum or

1443
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:18,840
drop me a note through Facebook or email

1444
01:03:23,730 --> 01:03:21,010
while you're there at the web site of

1445
01:03:26,010 --> 01:03:23,740
course check out our over 200 previous

1446
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:26,020
episodes of skeptic oh all they're

1447
01:03:30,810 --> 01:03:28,330
downloadable for free available through

1448
01:03:33,570 --> 01:03:30,820
iTunes as well and be on the lookout for

1449
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:33,580
a new version of The Skeptical website

1450
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:34,930
that I've been working on I've been

1451
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:37,810
getting in touch with my old programming

1452
01:03:43,020 --> 01:03:40,330
side and been whipping up all sorts of

1453
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:43,030
stuff so maybe by the time you hear this

1454
01:03:47,190 --> 01:03:44,770
if it's a little bit later than when it

1455
01:03:49,470 --> 01:03:47,200
first releases you will see a new

1456
01:03:50,670 --> 01:03:49,480
interface to The Skeptical website I

1457
01:03:51,059 --> 01:03:50,680
hope you enjoy that

1458
01:03:54,900 --> 01:03:51,069
if you

1459
01:03:56,849 --> 01:03:54,910
with your feedback well that's gonna do

1460
01:03:59,160 --> 01:03:56,859
it for this episode have a couple of

1461
01:04:02,370 --> 01:03:59,170
more shows on this topic that I really

1462
01:04:04,259 --> 01:04:02,380
want to get out to finish my exploration

1463
01:04:06,689 --> 01:04:04,269
of this topic and then I have a number

1464
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:06,699
of other interesting shows coming up so

1465
01:04:11,519 --> 01:04:08,890
if this is not your cup of tea

1466
01:04:14,009 --> 01:04:11,529
stick around this does end and we move

1467
01:04:16,709 --> 01:04:14,019
on to other things but again that's